You've a long musical history in New Zealand, a significant songwriter and musician with some outstanding bands including The Fourmyula and The Warratahs. Also well known for writing "Nature". You've been out on your own since leaving the Warratahs in '94, recording three albums, "Between Frames", "Same Boy" and now "Sense Got Out" - has this new musical life changed your writing or material in general?

The first thing you have to consider when you’re in a band with other writers, is that the musical direction of the band, is a composite of all the writers. The big difference when you go out on your own, is that all the material you do, is yours. I guess this gives you the freedom to have more control over the creative process. With my Band (The Fallen Angels) their input is immense, but the initial sketching of the ideas only comes from me. Also, the sentiment of a band can have quite important implications to your subject matter of what you are writing. In my own experience with The Warratahs, this tended to exclude certain types of songs. With my own band I feel we can turn our hand to anything and there is a greater sense of musical freedom. This has enabled me as a writer to basically go anywhere and on this new album, I’ve had a chance to explore new ideas.

What are some of those new ideas

The new record has been a chance for me to join up some of my pop sensabilities with a darker lyric content and more interesting arrangements. Two tracks on this album which head in this direction are “Side of the House” and “Plates”. Musically the band has been evolving with more imaginative musical ideas and we’re feeling pretty excited about this new direction.

How many years has it taken to get to this point

The record initially started at the end of 2003 as a live recording that reflected the band as it is on stage and would take about three to four weeks to complete. In the first two weeks at Inca Studios in Wellington, we put down about 12 songs. Our engineer/producer Nigel Stone had to return to England because of prior commitments and took the material back to work on in his London studio.

While the record was in London, new songs kept popping which we all wanted to use on the record. Eventually material returned from England which still required work but the band now took this opportunity to record 4 or 5 new songs, which due to the time lapse, meant we could incorporate some new ideas.

So in many ways this album is a story of the evolution of the band itself over the past few years. And sense eventually did get out.

About that song title….tell us more…

It comes from the second song on the album and I always thought it would make a great album title. I think it’s best explained when you hear the verse in “Sense Got Out” where “sense” is riding in the car and gets out and starts walking to save itself from the impending crash. The song was written in 2004 and we sent it into the International Songwriting Competition (ISC) in the States and was pleased to find out it reached the finals.

How important is imagery to your craft as a songwriter?

Imagery is everything. Because I writer from pictures in my head and not from words. The description of my pictures is how I write my songs. The personification of ‘sense’ in this case, is something that intrigues me. As in the quality of the song “Side of the House” where I write:

“Took a while to get to know loneliness
It used to hide round the side of the house,
No one invited it in,
But when it got inside it just took control…”

The process of morphing one dimension of words into another to me is the magic of good lyrics.

And your influences?

When I first started writing at about 17, all the contemporary pop songs of the era had already been ingested and being such an avid Beatles fan, their songs became a template for my writing. Since then I have been interested in anyone’s lyrics that I find absorbing and magical.

Billy Bragg was a major influence on my writing. I admired the way he spoke straight from his heart and his attention to small detail was exceptional, which made his love songs truly live.

Through watching him I realised the core simplicity of the singer/songwriter delivering a song directly and honestly. It was about then I gave myself permission to be much more subjective and inward looking, to be truthful in how I wrote and what I wrote.

I search for that brutal honesty in lyrics and powerful engagement of words, I’m a great fan of Charles Bukowski for that reason.

Some other songwriters I’ve listened to are: Hank Williams, John Prine, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Shawn Colvin, John Hiatt, John Lennon, Don McGlashan, Nick Cave, Leonard Cohen…many others

Does this new album continue along those lines ?

Yes, I think it’s definitely an album of unlove songs, dark, twisted lyrics wrapped up in pop tunes. I guess you could say I have quite a fatalistic view of the ‘love’ process but there are always two sides to the story, you can’t have a hill without a valley. One of the great services that unhappy love songs provide is a bridge for those people in dark places to walk across, they’re often not catered too.

Some might say that it’s a bit risky to be too bleak…with songs like “Another Day”? starting off with the line “So depressed”

No matter how bleak you may think your lyrics are, there are people out there who are bleaker. Some people may feel threatened exploring these emotions, but I don’t see anything wrong with using songs to make sense of your world. The great beauty of the human condition is that we all share an enormous depth of feeling. Some people skate over the top, some walk through the water.

Weekly Magazine seems quite a different type of song for you?

Subject wise it is, actually I was driven mad by seeing all those endless billboards outside dairies advertising the minute stuff of celebrities lives, who were doing nothing different than what a person 100 yards down the road were doing. Caught getting drunk in public, having affairs, childbirth, family death, eating problems, fitness freaks …impending nothingness, week after week, the same old faces and same old story. This weird symbiotic paparazzi world, feeding off one another drove me to a biro and paper. This is my tongue in cheek effort to try and change the world!

The album finishes with the hauntingly beautiful song “Plates”…a song of hope perhaps?

Yeah, maybe….it has some unusual imagery. The most amazing thing about this song was that it was recorded on the first take in the studio, sounding and feeling just like it does and all the magic was already there, it’s a very odd thing. It’s one of our most evocative pieces we’ve ever done. And there’s more on the way as some of my new material with the band seems to be heading in this direction.